Are we done with adding players for 2024-25?

[littlereg]

This isn’t true. Starling only really tailed off the last three games of the season, and it wasn’t even that bad. He just wasn’t as aggressive attacking the rim.

JJ Starling 2023-24 Stats per Game - NCAAM - ESPN

The 2023-24 NCAAM season stats per game for JJ Starling of the Syracuse Orange on ESPN. Includes full stats, per opponent, for regular and postseason.

www.espn.com

If you’re expecting Moore to push out Starling for major minutes, that’s a pipe dream. I just hope Moore can give us a solid 5-10 mpg. Upperclassmen are the key next season. Although I think Donnie has a shot to be a major factor.

“Only really tailed off the last 3 games” is such a cherry picked stat, but taking any number would be so I’m kinda cherry picking with this as well. . If we took the the last 10 games he had two games shooting over 33% from three and 5 of those games he 50% or higher from the field overall. He had 4 games with 3+ turnovers including 18 total turnovers to 17 assist.

 

[RealMcNeil]

2-9 on February 7th
1-5 on February 10th
2-7 on February 17th
2-7 on February 24th

Why do you think Moore pushing him for minutes is a pipe dream?

Confirmation bias. After the turn of the year, JJ averaged .583 from 2, .347 from 3 and .733 from the line in 19 games.

 

[littlereg]

Go root for Duke, then.

Oh yeah true I shouldn’t root for the team I like because I don’t overate our own players simply because they’re from “our backyard”

 

[FrancoPizza]

24 wins gets us back in the tournament and off the bubble.
That's the goal, isn't it?

Yes for this coming season. I just don't see 24 wins with this group.

 

[Cusefan0307]

And let's consider the math here. If a "volume shooter averages 5 attempts per game that's roughly 150 attempts over a regular season, The difference between 34% and 38% is 6 more made 3s or 1 every five games. Does that really differentiate between good and "not good?"

Considering a lot of basketball games go down to the wire and swing on a few possessions it matters a lot. It could have been the difference between beating Georgia Tech and BC this past season.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Considering a lot of basketball games go down to the wire and swing on a few possessions it matters a lot. It could have been the difference between beating Georgia Tech and BC this past season.

That's different though. That's game result. Not an assessment of individual player skill.

 

[Consigliere]

Considering a lot of basketball games go down to the wire and swing on a few possessions it matters a lot. It could have been the difference between beating Georgia Tech and BC this past season.

Well, to be fair, that one extra shot in five games would have to come in a game decided by three or fewer points and we would have to have not grabbed the offensive board on the miss. Admittedly that last clause hasn't been much of a stretch,

And the point is calling someone a "not good" vs. "good" volume shooter if he makes one less shot in five games seems a bit arbitrary.

 

[Cusefan0307]

That's different though. That's game result. Not an assessment of individual player skill.

The difference in skill leads to better results.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Well, to be fair, that one extra shot in five games would have to come in a game decided by three or fewer points and we would have to have not grabbed the offensive board on the miss. Admittedly that last clause hasn't been much of a stretch,

And the point is calling someone a "not good" vs. "good" volume shooter if he makes one less shot in five games seems a bit arbitrary.

Then what's the difference in a 30% and 40% three point shooter? It's only one more make every other game. Isn't the name of the game to find points wherever possible?

I get labeled a hater every time this player comes up. Better players have been roasted on this board compared to this guy. All I am saying is we need a big improvement at this position to be successful next year.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The difference in skill leads to better results.

We're in agreement there.

 

[Red2003]

Yes for this coming season. I just don't see 24 wins with this group.

We’ll have to see how the competition shakes out. I did a count last year and we played like 10 games against sweet 16 teams last year. Our SOS was pretty crazy high by end of year.

24 wins is doable if we come out guns blazing early on. Not playing Tenn, Gonzaga, Virginia and Duke on the road so early on will help with that.

 

[Consigliere]

Then what's the difference in a 30% and 40% three point shooter? It's only one more make every other game. Isn't the name of the game to find points wherever possible?

I get labeled a hater every time this player comes up. Better players have been roasted on this board compared to this guy. All I am saying is we need a big improvement at this position to be successful next year.

Let’s not go down another rabbit hole here. I am only saying it seems a bit arbitrary to call a 38% three point shooter a good shooter and a 34% one a not good one. Just my opinion.

 

[djcon57]

Let’s not go down another rabbit hole here. I am only saying it seems a bit arbitrary to call a 38% three point shooter a good shooter and a 34% one a not good one. Just my opinion.

Would it be arbitrary to say a 32% 3 pt shooter is average and a 28% is bad?

I don't understand the logic here.

 

[721Comstock]

Let’s not go down another rabbit hole here. I am only saying it seems a bit arbitrary to call a 38% three point shooter a good shooter and a 34% one a not good one. Just my opinion.

AND - pretty much EVERYBODY says that GMAC was one of our best 3 pt shooters.

He was certainly one of the most CLUTCH 3pt shooters ever.

But - check out his career shooting % stats.

All of those "if a guy doesn't shoot at least 38% from 3, he sucks!!" TAEKS would apply to GMac.

Career 35% from 3.

And his ONLY season that the 38%+ crowd would approve of, was his Soph year, when he hit just shy of 39%.

Gerry McNamara College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Gerry McNamara - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

 

[Consigliere]

Would it be arbitrary to say a 32% 3 pt shooter is average and a 28% is bad?

I don't understand the logic here.

Never mind.

 

[tbonezone]

gerry was a chucker. his records are mostly the results of sheer volume and not necessarily accuracy.

 

[two3zone]

2-9 on February 7th
1-5 on February 10th
2-7 on February 17th
2-7 on February 24th

Why do you think Moore pushing him for minutes is a pipe dream?

I think the disconnect with people is, these numbers aren't great but you can live with it IF he plays even passable defense.

He had one of the worst if not the worst season for a starting guard in 10-20 years.

 

[two3zone]

AND - pretty much EVERYBODY says that GMAC was one of our best 3 pt shooters.

He was certainly one of the most CLUTCH 3pt shooters ever.

But - check out his career shooting % stats.

All of those "if a guy doesn't shoot at least 38% from 3, he sucks!!" TAEKS would apply to GMac.

Career 35% from 3.

And his ONLY season that the 38%+ crowd would approve of, was his Soph year, when he hit just shy of 39%.

Gerry McNamara College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Gerry McNamara - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

Very different game than around 20 years ago.

 

[SpringsCuse]

Would it be arbitrary to say a 32% 3 pt shooter is average and a 28% is bad?

I don't understand the logic here.

Right. It’s like saying a .320 hitter in baseball isn’t any better than a .280 hitter.

 

[grepal]

I am out of town and have to listen to Infanti and Scibilia to get my Orange fix.

They are of the opinion that:

1) We won’t add another starting caliber player from the portal.
2) The team will be fine with what we have.

I think this take is incorrect, and if it is correct, we are in trouble.

Unless Westry stays healthy and is the impact guy we need as a lead guard-type player, or Carlos suddenly learns to hit 3’s, I don’t know how this team is going to be the best version of what it could be. Not enough shooting again, and counting on a point guard that has never played at this level.

The whole point of adding both Leffew and Carlos was to have a variety of experienced options. We don’t have that, in my opinion. I do think our center and forward positions are in better shape than they were last year but I am not convinced a PG from Hofstra will be a 30 mpg impact starter on NCAA tournament team in the ACC.

what I am trying to figure out is are we going after more players or not. I see mid majors getting players and SU not adding more players. Are we pleased with what we have and do not see anyone who interests enough to be involved with them? Are we viewed as a team no one of value wished to join. Are we too broke to compete NIL wise. Is there a perception that anyone else who comes here is a bench or a role player? Is it something else? If anyone has real info and not opinion I would love to know.

 

[Niastri]

2-9 on February 7th
1-5 on February 10th
2-7 on February 17th
2-7 on February 24th

Why do you think Moore pushing him for minutes is a pipe dream?

This is where small sample sizes kill you... If one shot each of those four games had gone down instead of rimming out, he would have averaged 39.3% and we would all be excited about how great Starling is.

 

[jordoo]

This is where small sample sizes kill you... If one shot each of those four games had gone down instead of timing out, he would have averaged 39.3% and we would all be excited about how great Starling is.

lol, yep. The difference is this, even in ACC play when JJ shot a three you hoped it went in. When Bell shot a three you expected it to go in. That’s the difference between a 34 and a 40+ percent shooter?

 

[Niastri]

lol, yep. The difference is this, even in ACC play when JJ shot at three you hoped it went in. When Bell shot a three you expected it to go in. What’s the difference between a 34 and a 40+ percent shooter?

It's amazing what those extra 6% makes, isn't it?

It also speaks to the whole body of sociological and psychobiological theories about humans needing storylines in everything.

Sports are a perfect place to live out a storyline with little risk. We believe Bell is a great shooter, we believe Starling is at best a streaky one. Those 6% extra makes and all the feels make it true.

 

[orangecuse]

AND - pretty much EVERYBODY says that GMAC was one of our best 3 pt shooters.

He was certainly one of the most CLUTCH 3pt shooters ever.

But - check out his career shooting % stats.

All of those "if a guy doesn't shoot at least 38% from 3, he sucks!!" TAEKS would apply to GMac.

Career 35% from 3.

And his ONLY season that the 38%+ crowd would approve of, was his Soph year, when he hit just shy of 39%.

Gerry McNamara College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Gerry McNamara - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

I think this is why so many folks retain in their memories him being one of our best 3 point shooters, regardless of what the statistics state overall or comprehensively. It just seemed that when it came down to crunch time, and we needed that big time (clutch as you mentioned) bucket, more times than not, GMac hit that HUGE shot/3. At least for me, that's how I remember it.

 

[CardiacCuse]

JJ was the worst defender.

i watched most of the games very closely last year and dont remember once being frustrated with JJ;s defense...

its wild to me how so many on here single him of all people out

I CLEARLY remember being blown by Judah's, Bell's, McLeod's, Brown's (many times), Taylor's (any time he tried to cover a PF, basically)...

all those guys had many many blown assignments, matador moments, non effort plays etc...every single game, it seemed

but i'm drawing a blank when I try to think of any similar moments for JJ

yes he was too passive...but its simply weird to me that HIS defense is the issue here...

he will step up this year and surprise people...most likely

his late season swoon last year was worrying...but that team was broken...I have high hopes (with my orange colored glasses on, admittedly)