2023-24 NBA Season | Page 88 | Syracusefan.com

2023-24 NBA Season

Melancer46 said:
That goes for a decent amount of top 25-50 guys though. Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Nash, etc. It's not disqualifying. I have an extremely hard time putting someone like AD up there though and a kinda hard time with Westbrook but I get it with him. Like with AD, he has fewer 1st team All NBAs than guys like Dwight Howard and Luka Doncic is going to pass Davis for 1st teams this season and he's only been in the league for 6 years. Davis is currently tied for 76th all time in All-NBA selections; he'll move up from there but I think he's grossly overrated historically.
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But I wouldn't put any of the guys you identified as the next tier above Barkley, Malone, Stockton and Nash.
 
The TNT crowd isn’t wrong. The taking turns offense won’t win a championship. Need to play as a team and keep the passing crisp and quick.
 
Ernie Johnson is great & Barkley has game (although he lives in the past way too much), but I could easily live without Shaq (love him, but his vocal volume is waaaaay too low) & Kenny Smith (zzzzzzzzz). I think Draymond is a TV star in the making.

 
OttoinGrotto said:
But I wouldn't put any of the guys you identified as the next tier above Barkley, Malone, Stockton and Nash.
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Speaking of winning legacies


Like I kinda think Chris Paul is better than Stockton and Nash (Harden probably is as well) but I can see the arguments the other way

AD at least has a title, which is more than you can say for basically anyone in this conversation, but I dont know about putting him ahead of Barkley and Malone
 
Knicks411 said:
Speaking of winning legacies


Like I kinda think Chris Paul is better than Stockton and Nash (Harden probably is as well) but I can see the arguments the other way
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Yeah, I just, uh... don't.

Harden had an amazing crest and obviously I rip on him constantly but I think he's going to be forgotten.

As for the Brow's ring, I mean... I just really don't know how much it helps him. He's been more hype than substance. The media really wanted him to make a leap to superstardom he just never did. He's kind of just another all-star.
 
Knicks411 said:
Speaking of winning legacies


Like I kinda think Chris Paul is better than Stockton and Nash (Harden probably is as well) but I can see the arguments the other way

AD at least has a title, which is more than you can say for basically anyone in this conversation, but I dont know about putting him ahead of Barkley and Malone
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AD also has 4 all defense teams.
 
Red Holzman said:
Wilt was great, but IMO Jokic is the more complete total package.
Wilt averaged 4.4 assists to open teammates when double/triple teamed -Jokic averages 6.9 assists as a spectacular play-maker.
No 3 point line in Wilt's day, but doubt he'd have hit many. Jokic hits 3's.
Dribbling, as you noted -no debate.
And foul shooting no debate LOL!
In 14 seasons, Wilt was MVP 4X, and despite his greatness won only 2 championships.
Jokic already has 3 MVPs. He could add a 2nd championship in a few wks.
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Do we know he couldn’t dribble? It was not a thing. The ball was 10x worse. Wilt was a much better athlete as well. Did you ever watch him as a globe trotter?
 
Red Holzman said:
Wilt was great, but IMO Jokic is the more complete total package.
Wilt averaged 4.4 assists to open teammates when double/triple teamed -Jokic averages 6.9 assists as a spectacular play-maker.
No 3 point line in Wilt's day, but doubt he'd have hit many. Jokic hits 3's.
Dribbling, as you noted -no debate.
And foul shooting no debate LOL!
In 14 seasons, Wilt was MVP 4X, and despite his greatness won only 2 championships.
Jokic already has 3 MVPs. He could add a 2nd championship in a few wks.
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Cheriehoop said:
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So, don't @ me for this, but there's other old footage of Wilt where he looks like an elementary school kid learning how to play ball, jumping off the wrong leg, using the wrong hand and all that stuff.

And yes, I know, he dominated. Didn't hurt his effectiveness.

But no way he'd be able to play that way now.
 
Larry Brown was impressed by Wilt playing against Magic etc when Wilt was in his 40’s and was being asked to play in the NBA teams into his 50’s.

Wilt Chamberlain coming out of retirement at mid-40s/50?

http://static.espn.go.com/nba/news/1999/1012/110842.html Larry Brown on Wilt coming out of retirement:
www.insidehoops.com

His first college games playing for Kansas. Looks pretty coordinated etc- what was he in grammar school when he looked like he was in elementary school? :)
 
OttoinGrotto said:
Yeah, I just, uh... don't.

Harden had an amazing crest and obviously I rip on him constantly but I think he's going to be forgotten.

As for the Brow's ring, I mean... I just really don't know how much it helps him. He's been more hype than substance. The media really wanted him to make a leap to superstardom he just never did. He's kind of just another all-star.
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I feel pretty similar to you on Davis. I will say he was awesome during the title run (28/10 on 57/38/82) but it was the bubble and people just arent going to count it as much as a normal season, for better or worse.

And it definitely seems like at this point he is never going to take the next step up to like top level guy. He has made 4 first team all NBAs, which is more than I would've guessed, but none since 2020 and he's had one third place MVP finish and one 5th.

Thinking about Nash some more, I really cant believe he won back to back MVPs.
 
Knicks411 said:
I feel pretty similar to you on Davis. I will say he was awesome during the title run (28/10 on 57/38/82) but it was the bubble and people just arent going to count it as much as a normal season, for better or worse.

And it definitely seems like at this point he is never going to take the next step up to like top level guy. He has made 4 first team all NBAs, which is more than I would've guessed, but none since 2020 and he's had one third place MVP finish and one 5th.

Thinking about Nash some more, I really cant believe he won back to back MVPs.
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Davis even when healthy is a solid #2 guy on a really good team. He was on a couple solid teams in New Orleans where they really under performed. He was clearly the best player but never did much there from a team performance perspective other than the sweep of Portland the one year in the playoffs.

His personality does him no favors either, he's tough to like. very sensitive when it comes to criticism, and is always dinged up and misses a ton of games but a tremendous talent
 
Knicks411 said:
I feel pretty similar to you on Davis. I will say he was awesome during the title run (28/10 on 57/38/82) but it was the bubble and people just arent going to count it as much as a normal season, for better or worse.

And it definitely seems like at this point he is never going to take the next step up to like top level guy. He has made 4 first team all NBAs, which is more than I would've guessed, but none since 2020 and he's had one third place MVP finish and one 5th.

Thinking about Nash some more, I really cant believe he won back to back MVPs.
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What Nash did for those Phoenix teams was really incredible. The MVPs can definitely be debated but I don't think it was a joke or anything that he got them. I doubt today's voters would have given them to him though (at least not the 2nd one when LeBron and Dirk were both very deserving candidates). The first one I think Nash probably deserved; he totally transformed that team and they collapsed any time he was on the bench (and the only other serious candidate was Shaq in Miami when it was kinda debatable if he or Wade were the best player on the team.
 
Melancer46 said:
What Nash did for those Phoenix teams was really incredible. The MVPs can definitely be debated but I don't think it was a joke or anything that he got them. I doubt today's voters would have given them to him though (at least not the 2nd one when LeBron and Dirk were both very deserving candidates). The first one I think Nash probably deserved; he totally transformed that team and they collapsed any time he was on the bench (and the only other serious candidate was Shaq in Miami when it was kinda debatable if he or Wade were the best player on the team.
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Yes I think its mostly the back to back thing that gets me. You look at the list of back to back winners and one name really stands out.
 
Melancer46 said:
What Nash did for those Phoenix teams was really incredible. The MVPs can definitely be debated but I don't think it was a joke or anything that he got them. I doubt today's voters would have given them to him though (at least not the 2nd one when LeBron and Dirk were both very deserving candidates). The first one I think Nash probably deserved; he totally transformed that team and they collapsed any time he was on the bench (and the only other serious candidate was Shaq in Miami when it was kinda debatable if he or Wade were the best player on the team.
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Those mid 2000s PHX teams were so fun.
 
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